Curse

sonofthort · Jun 19, 2009, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Cry of pain has been nerfed, but I've got a mesmer build that will let you do AoE 500 armor ignoring damage in only 6 seconds, and only have 9 seconds of downtime:

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Smity...ragility_Nuker

Sure, there are frag teams out there that use Fevered Dreams, but this build works with any type of team configuration. If you add the damage up you might fall short of 500, but remember that Deep Wound is 100 health loss, and 3 seconds of -8 degen is 48 health loss, not to mention anybody else who inflicts conditions on your team will only add to your damage. This build also reduces monsters ability to heal as per deep wound, causes short term weakness reducing damage output of the monsters, and clumsiness and wandering eye will interupt attacks, giving this build great utility also. Please note the fragility nukers will not stack, so only one could be used in a group.

Lishy · Jun 19, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

This build might look good on paper, but it must be taken into consideration on how the overall synergy is with your whole team. Just something that I wanted to point out.

Still, big kudos for being a fellow fragility fan

sonofthort · Jun 19, 2009, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

This build might look good on paper, but it must be taken into consideration on how the overall synergy is with your whole team. Just something that I wanted to point out.

Still, big kudos for being a fellow fragility fan

I find that you spread deep wound, and do tons of aoe damage by yourself extremely quickly, then you are able to protect squishies when monsters scatter while still pumping out huge damage with the quick recharge of clumsiness and wandering eye. It really works great in any kind of team configuration. Now that RoJ and Cry of Pain and even Vision of regret are nerfed, there is really not much that can compare to this builds Armor ignoring AoE damage output. To maximize on it even more, have some others bring some aoe condition skills like techobabble, weaken armor, and Blinding Surge.

Lishy · Jun 19, 2009, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Yes, but here's the thing.
It clashes very badly with a discord condition spam team. And henchies that spread conditions also suffer from the lack of synergy as well.

I'm not saying this build is bad at all. But that not all teams are perfectly co ordinated.

zelgadissan · Jun 19, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I swear I'm not trying to troll, but...

...was this seriously supposed to bring to light something that had never been done before? People have been doing the core of this build since Prophecies, just replace Drain Delusions with Shatter, and obviously no Wandering Eye.

Granted, it might be worth a discussion since Fragility got AoE-buffed, but it's certainly nothing new.

sonofthort · Jun 19, 2009, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

I swear I'm not trying to troll, but...

...was this seriously supposed to bring to light something that had never been done before? People have been doing the core of this build since Prophecies, just replace Drain Delusions with Shatter, and obviously no Wandering Eye.

Granted, it might be worth a discussion since Fragility got AoE-buffed, but it's certainly nothing new.

I take no credit for the fragility virulence spike idea, which along time ago was a pvp one target spike. Like you said, fragility received an AoE buff, so I added epidemic, wandering eye, and clumsiness to turn the once single target spike into a very powerful AoE spike. I don't think the origins of this build is the issue, the fact that its pwns face is what's important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Yes, but here's the thing.
It clashes very badly with a discord condition spam team. And henchies that spread conditions also suffer from the lack of synergy as well.

I'm not saying this build is bad at all. But that not all teams are perfectly co ordinated.

Having other ppl on the team that spread conditions isn't exactly lacking synergy... Maybe if they spread the same conditions, but bleeding, burning, crippled, cracked armor, and dazed are all conditions that this build doesn't spread and would only benefit if somebody else was able to cause them. Even if somebody else spreads the same conditions, you are still doing extra damage through fragility. If they apply a longer lasting disease, poison, or weakness, you won't get the second fragility spike, sure, but you will still be doing alot of armor ignoring damage through fragility, wandering eye, clumsiness, and there are not many builds out there that can spread Deep Wound quite like this. Builds that use finish him + epidemic aren't quite as successful imo because they tend to be single target spikes as opposed to aoe spikes, in the time they killed one target this build will have almost killed all of them, and the deep wound spread from finish him comes later than it would in this build.

Daisuko · Jun 19, 2009, 05:15 AM // 05:15

taken directly from my response on the discussion for the build you linked...

Problems I see....

1. You're expending 44 energy, with no energy managment. So the last skill would have to be some form of energy managment to even function.

2. this can not be ran in multiples, as conditions/hexes do not overlap for damage.

3. not every foe can be poisoned/diseased.

4. damage is staggered, leaving little spike potential.

5. actual damage would be 21 x 4 = 84 + 100 = 184 from the virulence spike, clumsiness and wandering eye deal 97 damage each, to make 378 damage. 21 x 3 additional damage would trigger 3 seconds later, totaling at 441 damage (362 if deep wound ends up getting removed)

6. this build would be too weak for pvp "nuking" say in jade quarry, and there are several considerably better skills if this is intended for PvE.

EDIT : Forgot about poison/disease damage, that'd add another 48 for 489 overall best-case damage over 3~5 seconds.

Braxton619 · Jun 19, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Yes this build has terrible energy management. Try to fix that.

2/5

sonofthort · Jun 19, 2009, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisuko

taken directly from my response on the discussion for the build you linked...

Problems I see....

1. You're expending 44 energy, with no energy managment. So the last skill would have to be some form of energy managment to even function.

2. this can not be ran in multiples, as conditions/hexes do not overlap for damage.

3. not every foe can be poisoned/diseased.

4. damage is staggered, leaving little spike potential.

5. actual damage would be 21 x 4 = 84 + 100 = 184 from the virulence spike, clumsiness and wandering eye deal 97 damage each, to make 378 damage. 21 x 3 additional damage would trigger 3 seconds later, totaling at 441 damage (362 if deep wound ends up getting removed)

6. this build would be too weak for pvp "nuking" say in jade quarry, and there are several considerably better skills if this is intended for PvE.

EDIT : Forgot about poison/disease damage, that'd add another 48 for 489 overall best-case damage over 3~5 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leet Tankur

Yes this build has terrible energy management. Try to fix that.

2/5

You guys obviously aren't understanding the build.

1. Energy is wonderful on this build, drain delusions instantly returns 12 energy, and the optional slot is for additional energy gain, read the optionals on build page. After 15 seconds when your next nuke is ready your energy will be almost completely recovered.

2. Damage: fragility x 7 = 147, clumsiness + wandering eye = 194, deep wound = 100 health loss, 3 seconds of -8 degen = 48 health loss, for a grand total of 497 damage/health loss, not to mention this damage is applied in about 5 seconds, uber spike. There's really not many builds that can do this much armor ignoring nuking in PvE, even when this build is countered by certain factors, it will still do 300-450 damage.

3. Monster invulnerability to conditions is a counter, yes, but what build is without its counters? Even with invulnerability, the damage will only be reduced slightly, you will still be doing tons of armor ignoring damage and deep wound will lessen their ability to become healed.

4. Condition and hex removal: Fast casting. You do most of your damage so fast that nothing is removed, and you spread so many hexes and conditions that condition removal and hex removal is about 2% effective at countering this build. Even when conditions are removed, fragility inflicts damage.

5. Run in multiples: Since when was the fact that a build doesn't stack an issue? There are tons of great builds out there that you wouldn't want multiples of in a group.

Kendel · Jun 19, 2009, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Meh, after theorycrafting and a little testing, assuming you can get conditions from the rest of your team, if your balling up foes using a tank, Epidemic and Hypochrondria (i'd even go as far as to say echo Hypo). If you pull 9 conditions off every foe at 16 Illusion using Hypo, thats 189 damage. I'd have to say Extend Conditions would be more ideal here because it can let you maintain already high duration conditions indefinately assuming you can get conditions from your team. Reapply them for another 189 damage, then immediately Hypo them onto a single target again, another 189, and rinse and repeat Extend/Epi/Fevered and Hypo and you'd get a Frag spike every time.

sonofthort · Jun 19, 2009, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Meh, after theorycrafting and a little testing, assuming you can get conditions from the rest of your team, if your balling up foes using a tank, Epidemic and Hypochrondria (i'd even go as far as to say echo Hypo). If you pull 9 conditions off every foe at 16 Illusion using Hypo, thats 189 damage. I'd have to say Extend Conditions would be more ideal here because it can let you maintain already high duration conditions indefinately assuming you can get conditions from your team. Reapply them for another 189 damage, then immediately Hypo them onto a single target again, another 189, and rinse and repeat Extend/Epi/Fevered and Hypo and you'd get a Frag spike every time.

I think you are missing a key feature of fragility which might make you not understand the build. Fragility also inflicts the damage when conditions are removed. The idea of this build is that it does not require a specific team configuration for it to be effective, there are already team builds designed for that: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Frag_VS_Farm . Without the help from other players, as stated, the original build I posted will do 497 damage/health loss. If you follow the link, you will notice that Fevered Dreams is a great elite to couple with fragility when you have a whole team that's gonna try to work to maximize the effectiveness of fragility.

Kendel · Jun 19, 2009, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofthort

I think you are missing a key feature of fragility which might make you not understand the build. Fragility also inflicts the damage when conditions are removed. The idea of this build is that it does not require a specific team configuration for it to be effective, there are already team builds designed for that: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Frag_VS_Farm . Without the help from other players, as stated, the original build I posted will do 497 damage/health loss. If you follow the link, you will notice that Fevered Dreams is a great elite to couple with fragility when you have a whole team that's gonna try to work to maximize the effectiveness of fragility.

Erm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

If you pull 9 conditions off every foe at 16 Illusion using Hypo, thats 189 damage.

I said that...

I was also advocating the use of echo Hypochondria with Epidemic/Extend/Fevered to basically strip all foes of conditions causing a wave of Frag damage, then reapplying them to the mob again with a spread skill, and just repeating the removal/reapplicaiton until everything dies. With Extend you get the chance to amplify conditions so you can effectively make everything last indefinatly.

Hell if you balled the mob up tightly, inflicted every condition and had maybe 2-3 mesmers pick a target and chain Hypo/Extend 1 after the other you could cause 400 damage to every foe in every 2 seconds (in theory) and the conditions would never run out (except probably Burning).

upier · Jun 19, 2009, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofthort

Now that RoJ and Cry of Pain and even Vision of regret are nerfed, there is really not much that can compare to this builds Armor ignoring AoE damage output. To maximize on it even more, have some others bring some aoe condition skills like techobabble, weaken armor, and Blinding Surge.

Let's not forget Splinter Weapon @14+.

maxxfury · Jun 19, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Let's not forget Splinter Weapon @14+.

^
Smite & splinter+rage your frontline, Mop target, GG? yup

ONTOPIC:Id have to go with either fevered or extend conditions over virulence spike. as KENDEL noted about hypoalso.

Keira Nightgale · Jun 19, 2009, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Use signet of corruption.

sonofthort · Jun 19, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

^
Smite & splinter+rage your frontline, Mop target, GG? yup

ONTOPIC:Id have to go with either fevered or extend conditions over virulence spike. as KENDEL noted about hypoalso.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Erm...

I said that...

I was also advocating the use of echo Hypochondria with Epidemic/Extend/Fevered to basically strip all foes of conditions causing a wave of Frag damage, then reapplying them to the mob again with a spread skill, and just repeating the removal/reapplicaiton until everything dies. With Extend you get the chance to amplify conditions so you can effectively make everything last indefinatly.

Hell if you balled the mob up tightly, inflicted every condition and had maybe 2-3 mesmers pick a target and chain Hypo/Extend 1 after the other you could cause 400 damage to every foe in every 2 seconds (in theory) and the conditions would never run out (except probably Burning).

Didn't realize Hypochondria with bugged like that. Anyways, your idea requires an entire team configuration, the build I posted is a build one person can run in the group which works with just about any type of group, doesn't require a special team configuration. By itself, the fact that it is able to do 500 aoe armor ignoring damage in only 5 seconds is very impressive, and it has very little downtime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

Use signet of corruption.

You are right. I just added this skill to the optionals.

Kendel · Jun 19, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofthort

Didn't realize Hypochondria with bugged like that. Anyways, your idea requires an entire team configuration, the build I posted is a build one person can run in the group which works with just about any type of group, doesn't require a special team configuration. By itself, the fact that it is able to do 500 aoe armor ignoring damage in only 5 seconds is very impressive, and it has very little downtime.

Me neither till last week. Works brilliantly for removing conditions without wasting them. Its only problem is its recharge.

Kraviec · Jun 19, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

You guys overestimate Fragility's AoE. It's just adjacent.

sonofthort · Jun 19, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraviec

You guys overestimate Fragility's AoE. It's just adjacent.

For the sake of my build this doesn't matter, almost every nuking build affects adjacent foes.

kostolomac · Jun 19, 2009, 07:53 PM // 19:53

The closest thing to CoP AP spam is Wandering Eye/Clumsiness AP spam, or assasin AP spam. It's still not nuking but it's some decent damage.